Neurodivergence at work: What's it like to be a founder with ADHD?

Anyone concerned with diversity cannot avoid the topic of neurodivergence. This umbrella term refers to various forms of neurological development that, in one way or another, do not conform to social norms: ADHD, autism, but also dyslexia and dyscalculia, for example. These conditions influence how information is perceived and processed, how people behave in social situations, and thus also what they need in order to work well. It is no wonder, then, that more and more companies are addressing neurodiversity in the workplace. In this personal interview, Luka talks to Rea Eldem, founder and CEO of IN-VISIBLE, about what it is like to be a founder with ADHD.

Luka: Hi Rea, I'd like to start by asking you a provocative question. Do you think you would have founded IN-VISIBLE if you didn't have ADHD? Because that's become a bit of a cliché—the founder who can work 24/7 because of ADHD, is extremely creative, and launches a new startup every week. Do you see yourself in that?

Rea: That's a really good question. Well, I would say that my personality led me to found IN-VISIBLE and, yes, several other start-up projects before that. But I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to establish a causal connection. I founded IN-VISIBLE because I saw a problem, but also because I have certain skills that allowed me not only to have the idea, but also to build it up over many years with a lot of resilience and effort, and above all to maintain it. My upbringing and personality helped a lot in this regard: my drive to get things done, but above all the fact that I've had difficulty my whole life concentrating on things I don't enjoy. On the other hand, when I'm absorbed in something, I go into a work mode where I get a lot done, perhaps even more than others in a very short time. Out of enthusiasm, so to speak.

ADHD is a spectrum that makes some things easier and many harder

Luka: You already brought up some really interesting things in there that I'd like to follow up on. But let's stick with the challenges for now. You just said that it's sometimes difficult to distinguish between what is ADHD and what is simply personality or external circumstances—but are there any challenges that, in hindsight, you would attribute to ADHD?

Rea: Not that many. ADHD is a spectrum, and I believe that I am overall quite functional in my form of ADHD. Functional in the sense that I am compatible with the requirements of our social system. My ADHD manifests itself primarily in hyperactivity and restlessness, rather than in concentration difficulties. 

As a founder with ADHD, Rea knows about neurodivergence at work.

That means my challenges are more that I like to work very quickly and get a lot done, and sometimes I don't have the leisure to do the last 20%. And I think it's often the case with strengths and weaknesses that they're actually the same things, just expressed differently. 

This intense drive to have lots of ideas and want to implement them right away is actually the driving force and lever for entrepreneurship. On the other hand, my team has often told me that it can be a bit exhausting to keep up with me because I always have another idea and want to do everything right away, and sometimes I lack consistency. Or the patience to observe first and then take a step back to see if it's worth pursuing. Everything has to happen very quickly, preferably immediately and at 400%. 

Between superpower and underachievement: ADHD and capitalism

Luka: Well, speaking as part of your team: Sure, that happens sometimes, but I also find it very inspiring because you not only have lots of ideas, but also the drive to implement them. That often helps me because I'm more the opposite—when I find something exciting, I can delve into every last detail and have endless ideas, but I find it really difficult to get started and then stick with it because I overthink everything. And if I'm not interested in something, it's just absolute torture. 

For context, I don't have a diagnosis in this area myself, but I've been looking into it for several years because I can relate to a lot of it. And I often see this image of “ADHD as a superpower,” while I'm more of an underachiever. I was extremely good at school, but as soon as that structure was gone, it became difficult.  It's fascinating what is perceived as a strength or weakness and what works in society.

In a capitalist system where the maxim is to achieve as much as possible in as little time as possible, certain characteristics of ADHD fit in very well and are rewarded—while others are severely punished.

Rea: I find this systemic criticism very important, because I would also say that in a capitalist system where the maxim is to achieve as much as possible in as little time as possible, certain characteristics of ADHD fit in very well and are rewarded—while others are severely punished. For example, when it comes to things like difficulties in getting things done, implementing ideas, or even forgetfulness. I have built many structures for myself that help me so that it is not so noticeable. I write everything down; I really have a list for everything. But of course, that only works to a certain extent.

Especially when you have a lot of responsibility or a lot of to-dos, it can happen that you lose track of everything and can no longer keep up with all the lists. Then I notice that I find it extremely difficult to prioritize. Something comes up and it's as if a new tab opens, and then I have to deal with it right away. And that works when you have 20 to-dos a day, but when you have 200 tasks at some point, it just doesn't work anymore. I can't stand that at all and, for example, I can't switch off in the evening and have trouble sleeping.

What can employers and managers do?

Luka: I find what you just said about structures really interesting. You've already talked a little bit about what you did yourself to overcome these challenges. What would you have liked to see from your environment, for example from school or employers?

Rea: Above all, I would have liked help in dealing with my impulsiveness. That's a huge issue for me, and even today I find it very difficult not to act on my impulses. I remember internships where I had lots of ideas, but there was no room for them, and I quickly lost interest or did things on my own. I would have liked my managers to have been more mindful of this. It would also have been great if someone had given me all the tools that I laboriously developed myself earlier on. These are mainly little things like closing my email, turning off my cell phone when I want to complete a task, and setting clear time slots for myself. I usually need about an hour and a half to focus on a task, and during that time I'm simply not always available. I have to discuss this with the team and clarify what to do if people really need to reach me urgently.

Luka: Yes, that's what it always comes down to: transparent communication. I always tell our customers this in workshops and consulting projects: Talk about it, say something!

Take ten people with ADHD and they will have ten different challenges in the workplace.

Rea: Yes, and that ties in with my criticism of the current discourse on neurodivergence. Take ten people with ADHD and they will have ten different challenges in the workplace. Of course, there are overlaps—but there are different types of ADHD, and every person is different. I think we need to start with the culture and work out what people specifically need in order to work well.

Open communication and mindfulness help everyone - neurodivergent or not

Luka: I would also argue that almost everything that makes life easier for neurodivergent people in the workplace also makes life easier for neurotypical people.

Rea: Absolutely. In Design Thinking, one of the things you look at is extreme users. So, for example, if the task is to develop something to help people quit smoking, I would also look at: What can I do to help chain smokers quit? And the solution I develop will probably also help occasional smokers. I think that's a mindset that can be applied quite well. Neurodivergent people are, if you will, extreme users in working life. 

You can't please everyone. But you can build a culture in which it is perfectly normal for people to talk to each other about how they want to work.

I also think that you will never build a culture in which everyone feels comfortable. You can't please everyone. But you can build a culture in which it is perfectly normal for people to talk to each other about how they want to work. Everyone benefits from this design process, even if you encounter limitations.

Luka: What tips can you give managers in this regard?

Rea: The most important thing is to talk to employees, work out together what challenges there are and how you can overcome them, and then stay on the ball. Strengthening strengths is a management responsibility that goes beyond the classic employee appraisal, and in my experience, this requires regularity above all else. It doesn't have to be long; it's more about helping people to help themselves. But it's also important to ask the question: what do you need from me as a manager to make things run more smoothly next time?

How can colleagues offer support?

Luka: So now we've covered your own strategies and what managers can do. Finally, do you have any tips for colleagues of people with ADHD?

Rea: I would like to see a little more communication and understanding when people don't conform to certain behavioral norms. For example, it's considered rude to get distracted during a conversation.  But for me, it's like this: if I'm talking to you and a thought pops into my head, it takes so much energy not to pursue it. If I don't write it down somehow, I'll be distracted during our conversation. I find it extremely difficult to let the impulse go. 

I would therefore like the team to work together to address these different characteristics and neurotypes, as this will increase their capacity for empathy.

Another person may not be able to understand this if it is quite easy for them not to act on impulses. Just as it is not so easy for me, as someone who is more extroverted, to understand how difficult it can be for someone to make small talk. I would therefore like the team to work together to address these different characteristics and neurotypes, as this will increase their capacity for empathy. However, it remains my responsibility as a neurodivergent person to find a good way to communicate and say, for example, “Hey, I just realized something came to mind, I'll quickly write it down” instead of just picking up my phone. But at the same time, it requires an environment that is understanding of this. 

Luka: I’m feeling this right now - they've just started drilling next door and I can't concentrate because it's so annoying. In some sense, I'm sure many people feel the same way, regardless of whether someone is drilling or just talking. But not everyone feels it to the same extent, right?

Rea: Yes, I think that's important to mention. It's not something that nobody else can relate to. Almost everyone finds it difficult to do a task they don't feel like doing. Most people want to remember their good ideas when they have them spontaneously. That's why neurotypical people can actually show empathy, because these circumstances are simply much more pronounced in neurodivergent people. 

The team must work together to create psychological safety so that you can even talk to each other, even without immediately sharing diagnoses.

But that requires space and questions and an open culture so that you can even really talk about it. The team must work together to create psychological safety so that you can even talk to each other, even without immediately sharing diagnoses. Because that's not necessary. Yes, I have this diagnosis and that gives me a different level of self-confidence to talk about it. But that's only because I feel like I'm being given legitimacy. But why is that? I think it's a problem in society as a whole that we deny people their experiences and always feel like there has to be a label on them.

Neurodivergence at work: all just a trend?

Luka: There are so many exciting topics in what you just said. They probably go too far for this interview, but we've discussed them many times before. Who actually has to come out as something in order to be allowed to speak on that topic “officially”? And that perhaps ties in with my very first question: Neurodivergence is often dismissed as a fad, with “everyone” “suddenly” having ADHD. It's similar to the topic of gender and particularly being non-binary, where people often say, “But men can wear nail polish and women can like soccer, why do you need to be a special snowflake and use weird pronouns?” When it’s really not about that at all. 

Rea: Yes, this devaluation is interesting. I think it also has a lot to do with misogyny. The increase in diagnoses is partly due to the fact that girls and women have long flown under the ADHD radar. Now there is a kind of mistrust. It's as if critics feel that women want to cast themselves in the role of victims and are therefore constantly adopting new labels. 

I don't want it to be about me. I actually want it to be about the system and to see what can be done differently to make it work better for me. 

With ADHD, for example, there are actually measurable structural disadvantages. But that doesn't mean that those who now speak openly about ADHD want to be seen as victims. On the contrary: it's about counteracting and shaping the situation. But then people go: "Don't act like you're having such a hard time. We all have it hard. Pull yourself together. Why do you want so much attention now?" 

But I don't want it to be about me. I actually want it to be about the system and to see what can be done differently to make it work better for me. 

Luka: Yes, and that ties in with all other forms of discrimination and marginalization. Because that's exactly what we see with racism, with gender issues, with disability issues. “Why do you always have to bring up this thing that disrupts my idea of what’s normal?” It's so deeply ingrained in the structures. It's perhaps also deeply ingrained in human nature – ingroup-outgroup thinking, intolerance of change. That's why I sometimes wonder to what extent we can really change anything in the long term, or whether we just have to accept that this is human nature. But I don't really want to accept that. 

And that's a whole other topic. Considering the time, let's wrap it up. Thank you for the exciting interview, Rea. I could talk to you about this for hours, and I hope all our readers feel the same way! If you would like to continue the discussion with us, please feel free to write to us.